Hi Ian,

Thank you for the warning.

While we are on the subject, I assume you know about Matt Bacak’s latest, and I think it might be wise to warn people about that one as well.

Subsciption payment’s made by Credit Card are often extremely difficult to cancel, and it appears that the law is on the side of the vendor.

I had this problem with another ‘guru’ some time ago, and my only way out was to cancel the card.

Regarding your comments about other well known marketers endorsing the product. I have opened a folder specifically to collect the name of anyone who offers me Mr Bacak’s product,
and will be asking them for an explanation, before unsubscribing from their list.

I consider this method of working as ‘Despicable’.

Regards,

Frank (Bowden)

What an extraordinary week this has been for sneaky tactics. I have never received quite so many apologies in my inbox.

As it happens I do not trust Joel Comm or Matt Bacak and I noticed the forced continuity. I do not know who handles their shopping cart but I think that this is very close to being illegal.

There should not be “opting out” at the shopping cart stage - there should only be a clear option of opting in if you wish.

This is a matter of marketers asking them selves how they can gross more and not asking them selves how they can give more or serve better.

I agree with you Ian that both Bacak and Comm have damaged their reputations but yours is intact!

Thanks for your long explanation also

All The Best

Alex

Thanks very much for the heads up!

I will cancel the sneak subscription.

Bob Abbott

Hi Ian,
I knew of this method, but had not seen it in this form (as a bonus).

It makes me wonder how many other products have I bought and not fully checked out the trial membership bonuses; as they are usually not of interest to me.

I also agree that some Internet marketing names we just trust to do the right thing; Joel should do as you have done and make it right, even at a financial loss.

I for one will have to think twice when I see joel comm and will not be buying the adsense report; I was thinking about it, but with sneaky tactics like this, I will pass on this one.

P.S. Yours is one of the very few newsletters that I open, and you have maintained that credability by your action in returning people’s money; even though it was not your fault.

Paul in Calgary

I also have had a bad experience with Joel’s “forced continuity” tactics and for that reason I decided not to deal with him. His products may be good, but I don’t ftrust any marketer who has to resort to such tactics. We as consumers can vote with our wallets.
I have.
Thank you Ian for your honesty.
Best luck to you.

Ian, you’re right. I have seen a lot of these “sneaky” memberships lately and have learned to read the “small print”.

I find it very deceiving and for anyone that resorts to those tactics, I simply remove them from my mailing list, no matter how much of a “guru” they are.

I didn’t purchase the product, but your honesty, integrity, and credibility has always impressed me.

This is an awesome post and proves again that you really do care about your subscribers!

Ian…

I have also purchased Joel’s past Adsense publications. Great stuff, no doubt about it.

But when I received the offer for his latest work and saw that swindle… I was was immediately turned off. Never thought he would ever stoop this low.

Joel will probably never get any of my business again.

Stan

Thanks Ian, for quickly calling everyone’s attention to the ’sneaky’ marketing ‘trap’ Joel has used in his latest promotion.

When I initially read Joel’s sales page, I DID notice that my $9.95 purchase would also sign me up for the ‘continuity program’. Because of that, I decided that I would pass on the offer, at least for now. Not that I doubted the quality of Joel’s information… I just didn’t want the expense of a recurring monthly charge, or the hassle of ‘canceling’ my ’subscription’.

While some may be angry at Joel for using this ‘trick’, it should be pointed out that it has been used many times before by other internet marketers, including Dan Kennedy and Yanik Silver.

It just goes to remind us one more time that we should ALWAYS read the ‘fine print’ of any offer presented to us.

John R. Cumbow
www.MisspelledBargains.com
Find the misspelled eBay auction
bargains that other bidders miss!

Hi Ian,

I commend your ethics wholeheartedly. I also believe that there is no reason why you should refund anyone’s money who has purchased the book from Joel. By your own admission, the wuality of the content of the book is worth more than the $9.95 that he is charging for the book.

I also believe that you have done the right thing by bringing the “forced continuity” to the attention of the people that you recommended to buy the book. I think the right thing for purchasers to do is to NOT ask for a refund, either from you or from Joel, but to cancel their subscription to his newsletter, if they feel that they won’t get any value from it.

I think that this is where your responsibility ends. You made a good recommendation to your subscribers to buy a quality product, with valid information within, and purchasers can very well make some very good adsense money by following the recommendations in the book.

I don’t know whether his report is worth $29.95 a month, but I am pretty sure that I would not continue to subscribe to it, unless it really proved to be of great value.

You have not lost any credibility in my eyes by making the recommendation, and you have not lost any credibility because you brought to your subscribers’ attention the fact that there was a forced continuity - the fact that you did bring this matter to everyone’s attention validates your upstanding within this community.

Thank you for being honest and caring, and please don’t feel any responsibility to refund people any money. Anyone who purchased Joel’s book, including yourself, will receive benefit from their purchase, provided they put what they learn into practice. If they are not going to do anything, they can ask Joel for their refund.

Have a great weekend.

Hi Ian - One of the reasons I’ve stayed with you for this long a time is because you are more than willing to issue an apology when you err (which is very seldom). I also know Joel and feel that the tactic he used in this offering is something shy of, though legal, honest. It is precisely why I don’t use this tactic. None of my sites even has an opt-in page since my list is pretty small. I do have a newsletter that anyone is free to opt-in to, but there is no charge for that.

Thanks again for your honesty and integrity.

Jay

Hello Ian,

I did not invest in Joel’s report precisely because of the “Forced Continuity” clause and, when I received your endorsement of the product, I must admit that I was a bit perplexed. “What the hell is Ian thinking?”

You have restored my faith by making this blog post and offering to reimburse those who did buy. So, I will remain a loyal subscriber.

Thank you, sir for your integrity.

MikeRogers

Hi Ian,

Thank you for being honest enough to come forward and tell your subscribers about this.

Unfortunately, I believe this is the second time in a week that it has happened.

I am shocked that almost none of the so called gurus who are promoting the 1.00 seminar giveaway being run by Matt Bacak can see it for what it really is.

Doesn’t anyone care that in the process of giving this great deal you have to go through “4″ offer pages before getting to the product page and even worse you are then informed in the email that you receive after the sale that you have been
subscribed to a newsletter that your credit card will be charged 29.95 per month for?

I never asked for, I never subscribed to and I certainly never gave anyone permission to charge my credit card for this “Bonus” newsletter. The only well known Internet personality to come forth (so far) and voice their displeasure with that promotion and that kind of marketing has been JP Schoeffel.

So I’d like to thank the two of you for telling it like it should be.

Hi Ian,

Thanks for the apology and offer to all your subscribers, it really is appreciated.

The thing that saddens me about this type of tactic is that there is really no need for it, the marketers in question are already successful so for them to resort to these sneaky, underhand tactics smacks solely of greed.

For them to tarnish their reputations doesn’t really concern me, after all they make their beds and now must lie in them. What really concerns me is that this type of thing may well become the norm, in just the same way as having ’server meltdowns’ and the like every time a new product is launched has become.

Sadly, many people will miss the small print if indeed there is any, (Initially in Matt’s offer there wasn’t) and end up in financial difficulty from all the hidden charges they’re suddenly faced with - Now that is a real worry.

I was conned by Matt’s offer and emailed him expressing my disgust once I found out. I received a rather terse reply to the fact that he had canceled my subscription as I requested, but didn’t have the good grace to apologise for this underhand trick.

My lesson from this is to be more careful…

Take care,

Stuart.

Forced continuity is more widespread than most will admit.
In today’s fluid and daily changing market from product launch to product launch it is hard as hell to keep up with who is doing what.

As you have done Ian, by scanning a sales page to find the bullets of benefits to compare to the end price, many have done the same because there is just to much information flying around making it hard to grasp the reality of the marketing tactics at play.

I am not a guru by any means but I have learned because of this same tactic that there are several sneaky little tactics to suck in the buyer.
OTO’s have become a rather curious phenomenon as well. I have purposely avoided using them recently and continue to find that some, like Matt Bacak use multiple stacks of OTO’s.
I don’t disagree with OTO’s but I am of the opinion that if a customer has located a product that really suits his needs for the purchase then he/she should be allowed to take that purchase and absorb the information wothout falling victim to information overload by having the “200 products for a never to be repeated price” forced at them at checkout stand.

Back to the forced continuity. There is some tactics that have stood the test of time for the honest businesses that are making steady money and grow because of their efforts.
Offering the newsletters and other products after a purchase via an email campaign has stood the test of time and it really does aid the relationship process and create a better and more reliable customer over time.

I believe your approch to see the reaction to this is right and appropriate. It is not fair to throw good people to the curb because they made a mistake. We all do things wrong from time to time. Who’s to say their is not another valuable report to build from this seed.

Charles Carter

Hi Ian,

I just want to say up front that I bear you no malice or ill will. That’s because over the years you’ve consistently proved that you’re a marketer of integrity and have earned my trust.

It’s just unfortunate that you’ve been drawn into this one.

To my mind, this sorry episode teaches us that when these ‘Gurus’ get greedy they’ll resort to anything to make a fast buck. They’ve forgotten where they came from and are so dazzled by the money they make, they’ve lost the plot.

The silver lining to this is that we’ll all either:

1) Read EVERY sales letter from end to end looking for fresh tricks — because let’s face it — things like this taint every marketer out there;

2) Not bother buying anything. Now that’s a thought.

I’m sure my comments will not go down well, but hey — I’m a “prospect” and what I think is coloured by the goods and services that are marketed to me. And when I’m being tricked like this, then I reserve the right to speak my mind and spend my money elsewhere.

Let’s hope someone learns a lesson from all this (but it makes you wonder why they didn’t the first time round, yeah?).

As an Internet Marketer in a niche other than making money, I have sat back and watched the marketing tactics of this group for quite a while. I got my schooling in marketing, albeit traditional marketing, and I find it sometimes humorous and sometimes shocking how desperate the marketing community - both online and offline - has become to make sales.

In the world of ‘authority sites’, it seems when one does become the ‘authority’ on something, greed always seems to be close behind. If we were simply happy working from our homes with minimal staff, this entire online marketing thing would really be a wonderful living - and it still is for most of us. It is when these ‘gurus’ of ANY niche get too big and powerful, lose their humiliaty and continue to want to grow their businesses and make more and more and more money, do things like this happen.

I am less angry at Joel as I am at Matt - because his ‘retirement’ is an out and out lie. As a result, I will NEVER purchase another thing from Matt - I hope others do the same and actually make his retire! As for Joel, I think he has good intentions and a good heart - while he hasn’t responded appropriately yet, I think Joel will come around, see the err of his marketing approach, and rethink his strategy. Joel has a new marketing person who I feel is leading him astray - since this new guy (I won’t mention his name) has been on board, I’ve seen some pretty lame stuff coming out of Joel’s camp….enuf said.

Hi Ian,
You have hit the nail on the head by exposing this tactic that reputable marketers are starting to use in the chase for the mighty dollar. I am glad you are taking the high road and letting all of us know about this. I was sucked into this tactic and went several months without realizing my account was being drained, now I don’t buy anything I have to subscribe to.
Thank you
Frank

Thanks Ian,

We see all these sneeky tricks a lot lately and they are becoming a BIG turn-off. Now the “sneeks” are even resorting to price-wars. I classify them with used car salesman and Stuart is right, it’s becoming the norm.

When we have to get defensive with the people we once considered our mentors, that’s telling you something. I’ll take honesty anytime.

Thanks for your continual “honesty”.

Patty

Iam your Integrity for pointing this out is appreciated. I got several apologies this week when Matt pulled the same thing. I actually didn’t read the whole letter as your glowing endorsement was ALL I needed. Now I will cancel…and I never saw an opt-out box or I’d have used it.

I guess when something sounds too good to be true…there has to be another motive

Hi Ian,

Looks like Joel has a lot of unhappy customers. A lot more than just here I am sure.

I noticed this little trick in Joel’s letter and also in one more this week, the one dollar deal of the year. I like others have removed anyone that promoted these two from inbox. But not you dear friend.

It seems that Joel does have another side that is now coming to the forefront. I have removed him from my inbox long ago when I heard he was less than responsive to this clientèle. I think I have seen the last of him, thank you very much.

And Ian, that was bigger than big of you to offer that refund for the book. It does show your character, but I do not think you needed to go that far. I am pretty surprised at anyone asking for it back from you. I think they fall into the easy money pit, just like Joel. In my opinion they deserve each other.

And if were you I would take off my list of subscribers.

It all really boils down to taking responsibility for our actions, or lack there of. There has been a maxim of law around for a long long time. Something about “buyer beware”.

I realize that in day of speed that tend to not take the time to properly inform ourselves and put that responsibility upon others. Shame on those who are so lazy. A body might expect this of children, but grownups should know better and do better.

I think all of those that bought into Joel’s and Matt’s programs uninformed are victims of their own greed and foolishness. That does not excuse the underhanded tactics of Joel and Matt in trying to pull a quickie on otherwise trusting folks. Shame on them.

Good on you Ol’ Boy. You are a true man among men. Thank you for your integrity and candor.

Justin

Ian you are an honest man to speak out against this website
after all, as an affiliate, you would have benefited
handsomely from this deceit.

J.P. Schoeffel has just sent a similar letter to his list.
His is a lot more scathing than yours! Quote. . . . .

“The idea is quite simple: offer something for a
silly low price (say $1 to $10). Then, simply
steal money from the credit card of your customers
each and every month.

Simple, no? It’s called Hidden Forced Continuity.”

* * * * *”Then another ‘marketer’ (not sure if the word
has ever been that badly used) released a book
on site monetization using the same ploy…

OK, these guys claim they make a lot of money
(and I am pleased for them), but at the same
time they show you some really ‘nasty’ technichs (sic)
they used to make that money.

Ian, you are not alone and the Internet community are also getting tired of a system aiming at giving a discount to people leaving a site…

Especially the latest which not only gave $10.00 off the initial
purchase but also $10.00 off the monthly subscription. Regretably, it is the supplier’s faithful list who are being ripped off because they expect to get the best possible deal for their
loyalty.

When I complained to one of these Internet entrepreneur
his campaign manager responded:

” Alex says: “If $10 is gonna make a difference to a prospective Player With Money, who’s looking at starting their online fortune - then we can part as friends, with a smile…”

Nice attitude! My guess is greed becomes all encompassing
as one gets richer and richer.

Its so nice to see the honest marketers making a stand
against this.

I was somewhat surprised to read on Joel’s website that. . .
“I feel blessed by my sudden windfall of prosperity and
I want to help as many people have the chance to live the
lifestyle that I have.”

Joel sold a gaming company and was a millionaire long
before he ever started writing books and playing around with adsense..

In the meantime, everyone who bought AdSense Secrets
needs to start contacting him and making sure that these
“Fantastic Fast Action Bonuses” are cancelled

Several months ago I wrote a short free report exposing this kind of scam. The report can be downloaded at http://www.wellbegunmarketing.com Not too many people picked up on it back then but now the issue is very hot all of a sudden.

I this scam was originally used in conjunction with a physical product. People are happy to pay a very small S&H charge to get a DVD or a book. This gets them to approve the credit card charge. Now the same scam is being used with digital products that have a high perceived value.

The essence of the scam is that the high-priced subscription is hidden away among the bonuses (which most people don’t pay much attention to.)

One tell-tale sign of this scam is the use of a credit card instead of PayPal to make the small payment. PayPal alerts the buyer to the creation of the subscription and makes it easy to cancel. The scam artists want to hide the creation of the subscription and make it as tricky to cancel as possible.

Now all of a sudden I see people acting all horrified about this scam but it has been discussed openly (and with great enthusiasm) on many high priced marketing forums for quite some time. I know I saw people eagerly recommending it on Job Crusher, just as one example.

And what I find especially disturbing about this scam is that it targets newbies and people with no money. I makes me sick to read the stories of how these scams have led to bounced checks and bank fees for the victims.

How do we warn people about this kind of thing without making the IM industry look even worse?

Thank you for your comments. I often wonder how internet marketers sleep at night. Why not offer a free copy of their newsletter to review on line and then sell it based on its perceived value and merit rather than try to be sneaky? The more we start acting with respect for our clients, honoring their ability to decide for themselves what works and what’s a value rather than relying on the effects of overload to take money that wasn’t given with fully informed consent (and fully aware choice), the better off our industry will be. Thank you for taking a stand. It makes a difference to me that you are an advocate for transparent marketing.
Sincerely,
Vicki Flaugher, the original SmartWoman
http://www.SmartWomanPublishing.com

Thank you Ian!
I receive about 200 emails a day at this email address as I am determined to find the way to earn a living online. However, I find myself reading less and less of the emails, picking out the ones I read primarily by sender. I have to tell you that without question, you are the most trusted of all.
I always read your mail, and always benefit from it.
I am a single father of a seven year old, with very little income, and have to be careful with my purchases, but your honesty and generosity towards your readers is awesome.

I would have fallen for the Matt Bacak scam had it not been for a warning email from J. P. Schoeffel, a lot of other ‘established’ marketers are promoting it, probably without trying it themselves.

I have been caught this way before and now intend to unsubscribe from those who perpetrate these scams, and those who promote them.

Thank you sincerely for the great honesty, advice and freebies that make my quest easier!

Ed

Hey Ian and crew,

Thanks for bringing these issues up. I really do listen to my customers and care very much how they feel.

Having noticed how some marketers in the past have buried their continuity programs so deep that you’d have to go to China to find them, my team and I really believed that we had spelled it out on the site clearly and responsibly.

There is no small print. It’s all right there on the sales page and then repeated in a dedicated paragraph on the actual order page.

One of the frustrations we experienced an hour before launch is a glitch in our shopping cart that would not allow us to add the report bonus as a line item as part of a bundle. So without a solution at that moment, we ended up putting it in as one product and calling it “AdSense Secret 4 & Top 1% Report”.

Well, turns out it confused a lot of people and I’ve spent the past three days trying to figure out how to get the cart to redirect to the right page once we added the report as a line item.

We found a workaround and were able to add a line item for the report, so it is obvious that there are two items being offered. You can change the quantity on the free issue to a zero if you wish. yesterday, and that has helped to alleviate a lot of confusion.

Regardless, I realize that this has caused a great deal of grief for people that I respect greatly and I hope that I can regain your trust.

Here’s what I want to do for those who ordered AdSense Secrets 4.0 as of 4/18. Email me at joel (at) worldvillage.com and I will extend your Top 1% Report subscription an extra month. Just send me your receipt and you’ll get two months free.

We’re very proud of the Top 1% Report and believe there is absolutely nothing like it in the industry. It is a very valuable resource and we’re giving it all we’ve got to help you succeed.

Please note that those who DO opt-in to the free issue will receive it before ANY billing takes place. What’s more, this issue will have a note with it that makes it VERY clear how to cancel if you don’t want to receive any more.

And, even if someone did get billed, received a second issue and called us to say they didn’t really want it, rest assured they would receive a full refund. I pride my business on providing excellent customer service and our record shows we are reachable and responsive.

I apologize to anyone who was hurt by this and hope we have made the offer clear.

Warm regards,

Joel

Thanks Ian

I had already had the heads up on Thursday about this and was a little surprised that you did endorse it. I thought maybe he had changed things and did not check it out.

I am glad to see that you did realize the error here. I will remain a subscriber of yours, however Joel has lost my confidence with this type of underhanded selling.

He does have the opportunity to make it right but is slow to do so and that puts him further into my black book.

If he was serious he would remove the forced offer altogether and make so form of conpensation to his customers even if they did not buy into it. His customers should be his friends, and treated like friends.

Thanks again.

Ian,

You have bolstered your reputation for honesty with your email warning. Yesterday morning I was just about to order Joel Comm’s latest book when I received an email from Martin Avis warning his readers about this under-handed scam. Martin also noted the the only payment was to use a credit card and Paypal was not an option. Recurring charges are easy to cancel with Paylpal, but not so easy to cancel a credit card charge. About a half an hour later I received your mail recommending Joel’s book.
That didn’t really sit well with me. I was beginning to think that a lot of IM gurus where out to make a fast buck even if it included underhanded methods. With your warning sir, you have set yourself apart from these people. As I have had trouble canceling charges with Matt Bacak in the past, I was on the lookout for his monthly charges. It must have been the sentence that starts “Free Report” in the bonus section that caught my eye.

I didn’t like the tactic either but endured it to get the book. I immediately asked for them to cancel the subscription which they have done.

Much better to make it optional at the time of purchase. I’m sure people will forget to cancel and end up being billed. Sneaky indeed!

Lynne Lee
http://www.articlewritingandmarketing.com

Hi Ian!
Thank you so much for your honesty. As one who is relatively new to the internet marketing game, I count on the so called guru’s to provide the information I need. But if they have to scam us newbies out of money, then their integrity isn’t worth the two cents of my time.

As a professional salesman, I have left companies because of their lack of ethics. If you can’t sell something honestly, then karma will catch you. I’m sure Joel made a grave mistake, but that mistake will now cost him many new subscribers. I for one will no longer listen.

I trust in you, Ian, and I know you will not let anyone down.

Stephen

I went through this with another internet marketing king, two times in one shot and never had emails responded to, though they called me trying to sell more programs. I previously had a lot of respect for him but yeah I really could have used that $60. I blamed myself for not reading more clearly. When something says free, now I read it all.

I have a ton of respect for you Ian, for doing this. As a result I will be paying close attention to your newsletter items, as you have set yourself apart from many in a positive light. *Thumbs up* to you.

Thanks for the apology, Ian. I was lucky enough to catch it before I bought. I only use PayPal and he did not have a spot for that or I might have just signed up. let us know if you come across any other good e-books on ad sense.
Your advise is always good, keep it coming.

Wow, these tactics have really caused a firestorm of outrage this week, and for good reason. I personally feel that they are underhanded and deceitful, and have caused me to lose respect for the sellers who employ them. The immediate red flag for me in Matt Bacak’s offer was the fact that you have to input your credit card info. For a $1 report? That alone was suspicious, so I didn’t even look at the sales page any further. Turns out I had good reason to be suspicious.

I don’t know Matt Bacak from Adam, but Joel Comm is another story. How he can live with himself using these ploys is beyond me. I would rather starve as a marketer than trick some unsuspecting newbie out of dollars that he or she probably can’t afford to spend.

Did I say newbie? What about the marketers who promote these sales - seems like many of them have been tricked as well. I suggest that a marketer who promotes such products is either willingly participating in the seller’s scam, or simply hasn’t examined the offer carefully enough to responsibly recommend it to his or her subscribers (actually, I haven’t yet seen any female marketers promoting these offers - perhaps they are more savvy than us guys?).

To top it all off, I received an apology email from another marketer about Matt Bacak’s offer, which he had promoted. Then, in the very next paragraph, he proceeded to tout Joel Comm’s deal!!!

Come on, people, this has sullied the already shady reputation of internet marketing in many people’s minds. How about trying to make a buck ethically, honestly, and with respect and concern for our customers!

Douglas

Ian - you’ve said it all!

I scanned the sales page of this offer and thought there must be a catch for the heavily discounted price - so I re-read it carefully and spotted the forced continuity scam slipped into a so-called “bonus”.

A classic example of the gift that goes on taking!

Alistair

Hi folks

I’m really touched by all your comments. I appreciate them. I’m not even going to attempt to answer each one individually. Heck, it’s Saturday evening here in the UK, and I’m sipping a dry sherry and looking forward to the family Saturday evening meal in 15 minutes time

I’m really pleased that Joel has responded so quickly to my invitation to add a comment to this post. His prompt action has justified my initial decision not to cut out Joel from my online life before giving him a chance to reply.

Other IMers, such as JP Schoeffel, Dr. Mani and Jeremy Gislason have taken the same stance as myself - criticising forced continuity, but, at the same time leaving the door open to Joel.

Like Joel, I, too, have made some errors in the past. The only way to avoid making mistakes is not to do anything at all As they say, if you stick your head above the parapet, someone, sometime is going to shoot at it!

Before Joel commented, I’d already raised a support ticket on Joel’s help desk, asking to cancel my subscription. I got a reply within the hour from Sarah Jane in Joel’s support department saying that my subscription had been cancelled, but that I would still get by post my complimentary copy of the “Top 1% Report”.

All this has gone a long way to restoring my faith in Joel.

I only wish that I hadn’t had to spend 3 hours of my treasured weekend sorting all this out.

Ah well, I’m off to enjoy my Saturday meal

Thanks, again, to everyone.

Ian T

I too saw Joel’s offer, through another marketer. Since the first time I got trapped by that kind of sneaky tactic over 2 years ago (by a very well known person I won’t name), I have always been very careful of “free” or low cost offers. I dropped Joel Comm a long time ago when his emails became more and more “smarmy”.

I see that Joel has apologized……for causing upset to his customers but not for the tactic. This lowers my opinion of the man even more.

I agree with another writer here…..I really don’t think you should have felt you needed to offer a refund from your own pocket. Those of us who have been with you for a long time know you would never knowingly stoop to such blatantly greedy tactics.

Once again, you show yourself to be honest and trustworthy. I have many products I got from you over the years and have been pleased with every one! I also read every newsletter from top to bottom (something I rarely do with any others!).

Ian, you are the best!

Thank you Ian..
Being a newbie , having looked at and nearly bought some of these products ,as good as they may be ,they are being sold on a system that can best be described as a scam..
Most every one is looking for a way to make some extra money and to be taken in by the elite of on line marketing is terrible..
They are to be compared to some of the mlm group that takes money from the newbies and those with less money..
As of now (today) my list of incoming emails is going to be a lot smaller as I’m going over every sales email and if there is a hint of this type of marketing , it’s gone , canceled..
Emails from the likes of M.B. , J.C. , D.K. , Y.S. for starters..
Thanks again..
Bud

Hi Ian,
Bought through your link, and didn’t spot the scam.

I wouldn’t dream of asking you for a refund. Or Joel Comm, for that matter; the ebook is well worth $10.

But I’ve demanded a cancellation of any so-called “subscription”.

I certainly won’t even be looking at anything else by Joel Comm, let alone buying anything from him.

And I’ll be reading more carefully in future.

Thanks for the heads up!

Darrell

Hi Ian -
As you know, we were discussing this issue at length at http://ablakeforum.com when Tony Blake called out Matt about his HIDDEN forced continuity…
Joel Comm’s sale did NOT have the same unethical practices included, however. Yes, the continuity was there, but it was repeated on the sales page AS WELL AS THE ORDER PAGE.
It’s unfortunate that he launched in the midst of this current debate about the problem of HIDDEN forced continuity, but tarring him with the same brush is unfair, in my opinion.
There is nothing wrong with the practice - just the implementation needs to be clear. And in Joel’s case, I think he did a fair job. No, not perfect, but live and learn.
Everyone is welcome to join in the huge discussion at http://ablakeforum.com/index.php/topic,577.0.html about this issue. The FTC regulations have been posted as well.

Cheers!
Lisa Preston

Ian, This doesn’t surprise me, he has done it in the past and it seems that a number of other SO-CALLED gurus are trying to pull the same thing. But you should know by this point in your life, I am older than you and have just realized it lately on the internet, So-Called Millionaires are not satisfied with what they have, they always want more.

You are the greatest internet person to deal with. You are honest, earnest and you definitely do give back to help others.

It is always a pleasure to deal with you.

Sincerely,
Roberta

Thanks Ian for your integrity in pointing out this instance of unethical marketing. I was on Joel’s lists and have now unsubscribed; also I did a search in my inbox to find everybody who promoted Joel’s offer to me and unsubscribed from all of them.

I have been trading online for about 5 years now and have signed up to hundreds of lists; most of them are hustlers, even some of the big names and will push any sort of crap if they can see a buck in it and many of them boast about it.

The amount of really valuable newsletters I get are between 5 and 10; for those I set up individual files for them and if I do not have time to read their emails, I save them to their files and read them later,

Because of your courageous and ethical action in this case I
have now promoted your newsletter to my A list and would have no difficulty in reccomending tour newsletter as a “must read”

Eugene Mallon

I have received 6 emails today telling me to read every word of an ad and really see what the product is all about and find out what is the back door. It’s really bad when a person has to do these types of things, to make a couple of dollars.
Now I see why these gurus gave me that advice.

Ian

Not only did I find issue with the “Forced Continuity” but I also question whether the claim of generosity is real or really self serving and another feigned marketing ploy.

There is a scripture passage that says “For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, in their eagerness to get rich, have went astray. 1 Timothy 6:10″

It seems that in order to make as much money as one can as fast as one can often leads people to cross the line of what is ethical and moral. If and when that happens a good reputation can disappear rather quickly.

I close by saying that the way you have handled this faux-pas has been exemplary. Your apology is accepted and your reputation has skyrocketed in my estimation.

Be blessed….

Ian.

Your honesty is really refreshing and one of the main reasons I continue to subscribe to your emails, and, tell others about you.

Your consistent integrity is a good example for all marketers to emulate. I will wager that you sleep soundly every night too!

Jim DeSantis

Hi Ian

Is this not perhaps a sign of the times? I have seen this sort of apparent scam many times over the years usually when the going gets tough, thats when you really see the callibre of the person you are dealing with.
Over the last year there have been less of the $97+ products and loads more of the $9.99 and less specials!!
A lot of marketers seem to be desperate just to survive.
Some of the guys that have been claiming to make vast sums on the internet and living the high life no doubt, have just come in for nasty shocks, as I understand it, with the tax man wanting his share!! In fact one well known marketer has made no secret of the shock and accordingly is offering a “Taxman Special Offer” The only thing is that he will have more tax to pay on the special offer!!
I would love to be making six figures on the internet every year BUT rest assured if that was the case you would never see any written or verbal claim from me that I was in fact making that sort of money.
By the look of it Joel is going to pay for this error, I don’t know what his intentions were but it does not bode well for him especially if he does not show some public remorse!
If the world economy does, as is forecast, decline to depths with no parallels that most of us can remember then there will be scams galore to be on your guard against.
I buy NOTHING on the internet unless the seller takes Paypal.
I have had a few instances where I would maybe have lost money but I was rescued by the power of Paypal. In this day and age why take chances?
Thanks Ian for proving that, as most of us know already, that your honesty and integrity are beyond reproach.

Regards

Chris

Hi Ian,

Thanks for this post. Like you, I scanned thru the salespage and ordered based on Joel’s reputation. I didn’t see the continuity clause at all. I am an affiliate of his and will continue to be so. I don’t think he was out to “scam” anyone.

It bothers me greatly that so many of the responders here are eager to throw everyone under the bus at once. If a marketer is really active and making a living online, then that marketer KNOWS that you cannot possibly read every little line of information that comes through the pages of the internet. Just because a marketer presented a product to them that may have used a technique that they deemed unethical isn’t justification for canceling everyone from your inbox who might have ever known or promoted that publisher. I don’t like “forced” continuity programs either but ultimately we each are responsible for our own buying decisions.

NO I am not a guru, rich, or a friend of Joels. No, I do not use this type of technique. And no, I WILL NOT cut everyone off at the knees just because they happen to associate with someone who used a technique that some consider distasteful.

I feel overreaction is not warranted. In my opinion, Bacak’s deal was a scam. Joel’s is not. I personally feel his apology is more than sufficient. Continued petty gossiping and character assassinations should be beneath the members of this industry. To continue down such a path will only lead to self-destruction of the industry at large, torching everyone along the way. What does that accomplish?

Instead of the negative reactions creating an indestructible firestorm, perhaps leaders will emerge in the forums and find a way to eliminate such harmful techniques as “forced” continuity.

Regards,
ArleneKaye

Hello Ian,
Thanks for your prompt advice. This is the first time I have bought anything from Joel Comm, and it will definitely be the last. I hate sneaky underhand tactics and that is what Comm is guilty of.

I have set in process the cancellation of my purchase but, as you pointed out, one must first of all register before one can create a ticket. Then one must wait (so far over 30 minutes) before one can validate one’s registration, then one must create the ticiket and wait who knows how long for Comm or his staff to respond. And he is not the only one to use this inexcusable way of handling complaints.

This is unforgiveable and ranks with the underhand tactics of several other well known “successful” internet marketers who are no doubt “successful” (for “successful” read “have become wealthy thru dirty tactics”) becuase of their failure to respond to issues they deliberately created in the first place.

This has become so rife on the internet over the last few years I am seriously considering creating a special web page to list all the dirty crooks and their dirty tricks and my personal experiences with them.

Thankfully I can say that you have never resorted to any dirty tricks, you have always been the epitome of honesty and integrity and have often overdelivered on your promises. Sadly, you seem to be among the few I can trust anymore.

Leslie

I got caught out by the mail from Corey Lewis for the $1 Matt Bacak offer. After going through and clicking NO to the newsletter (add on offer) I then get the following email.

Quote starts:
Thank you for ordering Matt Bacak Retires!

What you may not realize is you just got your hands on one of the most valuable training programs in existence anywhere — and at any price.

NOTE: We are experiencing an overwhelming response to this offer. Our techs are increasing bandwidth and we expect the logins and videos to run smoothly and quickly again very soon.

==============================

IMPORTANT NOTICE REGARDING DIRT

==============================

As part of the $1 Matt Bacak Retires Package you

will receive a free issue of Matt’s offline print

newsletter, INTERNET MARKETING DIRT!
Your first free issue will be in your mailbox soon.
We know you’ll find the information valuable
because we make it easy!

Each month on the 12th you will be billed $29.97

just before the issue ships. If you wish to stop
receiving Matt’s most powerful strategies that he’s
using to make millions in 2008 or need to
change your mailing address or billing info,

just email mattbacakretires@gmail.com.

TO MASSIVE PROFITS!
Matt Bacak, Founder

Frontier Marketing Int’l

{Quote Ends}

I am NOT impressed! Thank you Ian for highlighting this which is certainly not legal in my country. (NZ)

Thankyou for your integrity. It’s one of the many reasons I subscribe to your news letter.
Ted O’Reilly

Hello Ian,
I posted a comment about 2 hours ago in which I “slammed” Joel Comm and his “dirty tricks.” In fairness to all, I now want to post again.

After reading your post I immediately, “hot under the collar” and full of anger, completely unforgiving, posted comments based not only on this experience but also on previous similar experiences.

Then I read Joel Comm’s post and took the liberty of writing an email to him explaining my experiences and situation.

I am pleased to say that within the hour I received a reply from him. Here is the substance of that reply:
Hi Leslie,

I apologize for the confusion and take full responsibility. In
fact, there will be a public apology forthcoming. Just finishing
up the page.

I will make sure your subscription is extended to two free issues
and we will do our best to earn your trust again.

Warm regards,

Joel

It takes a person of courage and integrity to openly and publicly admit he/she made a mistake. It takes a genuinely regretful person to make redress for the mistake. The fact that I got a reply was very surprising (it’s only the third time in twelve years on the ‘net for me to get a reply to a complaint); the fact that the response came back in just 10 minutes was heartening, and the offer of redress was very pleasing.

With a few small reservations, Joel Comm is back on my list of “good guys.”

Leslie

Thank you for letting me know, but I did not read Loel’s report and did not buy it. Thanks again Ian

Lee

Hi Ian,
Just a last few comments from me on this issue:

You should not have to reimburse anyone who bought the report.

Joel may well have spelled out the offer, but a bonus should have no strings attached.

If someone is promoting a newsletter as a bonus them make it a free offer; but with an optin when you actually receive the newsletter and see its value.

Have a great weekend.
Paul in Calgary
The Child Development Guy

Hi Ian
1. ignore my email of yesterday (the part re- Joel’s Adsense 4)
2. I read SFW’s blog on Matt Cutts - the most relevant part to me was the ref. to the FTC link, which is accessible from your reference to Jeremy’s post on Matt Cutts. Perhaps include a link in your next Newsletter for all those who have missed this, or not followed through all the commentary
3. I agree with a few of the comments above on where your responsibility lies and ends - I do not believe you should refund - that is Joel’s responsibility.

I thank you for your honesty & integrity.
Kind regards
Nadine

Ian,

Hello …yes it’s time for a forum on this nastiness. I have been able to steer around all but one before and now this, the second one that caught me. Well, designed - buried in the third of four “bonuses.” For the most part, I don’t pay much attention to ‘bonuses’ anymore as they are not what I bought the product for. In Joel’s case, I expected the low price to mean the report would be loaded with other enticements, as these ‘low-priced’ e-books always are (It IS the business of ‘$1 e-books,’ isn’t it?)

Nonetheless, for Joel, or his copywriter, to skillfully toss this little gotcha a bit off the trail, is confusing to me.

It’s confusing to me because this particular Marketer has ’supposedly’ made many millions of dollars from the subject of his specialty. Hasn’t he? Why this underhanded attempt for more money? Recent divorce? Bad debts? A fall to the Dark side?

Ian, thanks for giving us an opportunity to make something really GOOD out of this all - an awakening that may spread even faster than even the original ’scheme.’

Best Regards,
Austin Lunos

Hi Ian

Forget the ten bucks.. As other posters have mentioned, Joel still doesn’t see fit to apologize for the underhanded tactic. I avoid any product that the author feels must be promoted via questionable means. If the product is a good product, it WILL stand on it’s own.. so will the marketer. That’s why your list, Ian, is the only list I subscribe to with my primary email address.

Rick Carruth

Ian,

Excellent damage control and proactivity, on top of an admirable example of honest, old world (unfortunately) ethical behaviour. I spotted the forced continuity (the second example in a few days, cf Matt Becak) and didn’t purchase, but I do wonder whether or not this is an unfortunate trend. There’s nothing wrong with the subscription idea, as long as you make it clear from the outset, but these are not the only occasions over the last few months where I have arrived at a Clickbank or Paypal order page to find an unexpected recurrent payment.

More strength to your arm,

Tony Page

T R A V E L S I G N P O S T S . C O M
[Europe tour photos and travel information]

Ian, I have been a subscriber since 05 Dec 2005 and for good reason. You are TRUSTWORTHY and aren’t afraid to call a spade…

I am now in a 3 month dispute with MasterCard for a billing from Matt Bacak. It took me for ever to determine who the billing was from, I finally lucked out on an obscure Google search. FRONTIER MARKETING is the vendor name. Again just lucky to tie Matt’s name to the billing and then I had to figure out why I was billed. Found the original sales page then no way to contact him! Eventually received an email blast from him and and emailed my request for credit AND to stop the subscription charges and have NEVER received a response. (Incidentally there was a 100% No Questions Asked Refund Policy on the page!) MasterCard are doing a CHARGEBACK and warned me the vendor has 45 days to counter claim. If he does, IAN this important thread will be forwarded to MasterCard in MY DEFENCE, Thanks in advance
John

Ian, you’re one of the good guys. That’s why I surfed on over to check Joel’s ebook. Since I’ve received so many of these kind of sneaky deals lately, I learned to look at these offers carefully and noticed the forced continuity that was included. To me when I see these things it’s one offense too many. I normally blacklist whoever is involved. You are the exception, since you’ve been honest about all your dealings as far as I can tell, I haven’t b/l you. Comm is on my b/l for pulling that stunt as are some others.
Take care and stay on the upside,
Hazen Hoffpauir

I receved a email from joel and didn`t buy from him because
of the 1% report.then i got your email and order it,thinking the 1%report wouldn`t be there but it was,so i made a note to cancel.I thank you for the link to do just that,and will do it now.the best to you and would never think of a refund.

Ian

Many congratulations, you have just shot to the top of the tree for your honesty and integrity.

I purchased this product (not through yourself) and was caught out because I just simply had stopped looking for the “catches” after wading through so much sales jargon.

Normally I have a policy which is that if I can’t buy througfh Paypal then I don’t buy because of the difficulties of getting a refund through the credit card system.

This time I ignored my own advice however not all is lost.

Whilst you shot up to the top Joel headed in the opposite direction and I immediately cancelled my subscription and requested a refund.

Now credit where credit is due within hours of my request I received an acknowledgement to say my refund had been issued and subscription cancelled. No ifs or buts, I even received a complimentry copy of the report.

Perhaps Joel has learnt a lesson. If so then credit to him for accepting his mistake he is on his way up again in my eyes.

However main credit must be claimed by yourself for your prompt actions. Thankyou.

Best regards and keep up the good work.

If people have faith in their product and themselves, all you they need is to tell your customers that fact. Ian Traynor has shown the criteria and earns my respect. I will post you up on my site “You Owe It To Yourself”
Warren Edser

This is not the first time Joel Comm has used this tactic. It may not have been ‘hidden’ but you could only sign up by credit card and you were made to jump through hoops to get out of the deal. If not illegal, I certainly find it unethical.

I had already unsubscribed from his lists after experiencing his ‘Success in 12 weeks’ program. I found it to be not at all as described. Rather than being a coherent course, it was a random collection of Gurus talking about their particular area of expertise. Several of them used it as a blatant sales pitch for their own services.

These people seem to think that since they make a lot of money, their time is valuable and if they talk, we should pay to listen. I think it’s time that some of them got rid of their 10 page sales letters. Let us see a sample of the product and decide for ourselves if it is valuable.

There are a few people, like Ian, who provide a service by giving a heads up on some of the gems that are buried in the avalanche of dross. Most so called marketers are happy to peddle anything to make a buck. My inbox is very much lighter these days.

Thanks Ian,

I appreciate the time and effort you put into keeping us up to date.

A fan.

Brenna

Well done Ian!
You prove time and time again your one guy “newbie” and pro web users can trust.

Hi folks

Once again, thanks for your comments and kind words.

Joel has restored his reputation with me. I think that he has reacted quickly and appropriately.

I think you should look at his public apology here:

http://www.adsense-secrets.com/apology.html

Hi Ian:

Thanks for the heads-up on “The Top 1% Report” forced continuity! I did indeed order the “Adsense Secrets” report through your link, but see no reason at all why you should refund my purchase price. However, your offer is very much appreciated and shows why your integrity in unmatched in the business!! I have cancelled my subscription with Joel and have asked HIM for a refund. Thanks again for both your honesty and your willingness to do whatever is necessary to “make it right.”

Joe

Hi, Ian !

I have always liked, admired and respected you as a marketer… you’re a “straight shooter” as we say in “the colonies” :o)

Yours is one of the few mailings that I put in my “special” folder, as I want to be sure to read every bit of it, and not just skim through it (a lot don’t even deserve that !)

Even if you weren’t even a business person, you have one thing that stands out from so many - - integrity. Along with it, you have honesty and humility - - rare finds.

I have always lived by one thing when it comes to selling anything - - full disclosure. Whenever I had an automobile that I was selling, I told potential buyers about all of the things “wrong” with it (as far as I knew from my own experience), as well as all the things “right” with it - - no “wart” was covered up. If I had had “X-ray vision”, I would have told them more. Why ? Fanatically obsessed ? No. The simple reason is this - - so that NOBODY could come back at me and irately demand a refund because I sold them a “lemon” without telling them about all the deficiencies of what I sold them.

Sometimes it took me a while to sell that particular item, but you know what… I always DID sell it,… and the funny thing is… NOBODY ever came back to demand a refund :o)

I guess there’s a lot to be said for “truth in advertising” :o)

After years online, I have learned to spot such things as forced continuity programs (saw it in Bacak’s and Comm’s offers right off) and have determined not to buy them unless I really wanted AND could afford them.

Your reaction to and for the sake of your readership is laudable and definitely beyond “going the next mile”. Cudos, Ian :o)

I am also pleased that I can now purchase Joel’s book WITHOUT the forced continuity thing - - for any part your efforts have had in making that possible,… thank you :o)

Apart from hackers, identity thieves, digital thieves (habitual refunders and the like), and other vermin scum that infect our computers with their viruses and dialers and try to steal our money, the only “marketer” I find objectionable is the one who doesn’t even tell you the price of their product “until you go to the order page” - - I just don’t like that version of the old TV show, “I’ve got a secret”.

As always, Ian, you have my full support and thanks !

Hal Humphries

p.s. - if anyone tries to access my site from this link, please be patient and try back soon - I “have” been having “server issues” that I hope to clear up soon :o)

The mark of a true gentleman!
I’ve not bought Joel’s product but if I had, your words backed by your actions would have been one follow-up I could never forget in a long long time. Thank You Ian.

I am seeing so much of this recently it makes me wonder whether these guys are all trying to recession-proof themselves at the expense of unwary subscribers.

The idea of hidden forced continuity, making it difficult for them to cancel and/or hoping they forget just so you can keep raking it in - is disgusting.

What ever happened to providing value for the customer? Value that they’re willingly participating in - that’s not being forced down their throats?

This is not something that should even be experimented with - just to see how much the market will take.

Sabrina
http://CampaignBlasting.com
The Fun, Safe Way To Do Adwords

Well, six weeks after the last post by someone here, my controversy is still ongoing.

I got, or at least thought I did, a cancellation of Joel’s Top 1% continuity product. I received a confirming email on May 7.

Here it is, 10 a.m. Sunday June 1, and I just received notice that a 29.95 charge had been processed for my alleged Top 1% subscription. An hour later, I’ve emailed back and also submitted another ticket thru their Help Desk.

During these economic hardship times (I’m in a recession despite what other may people call it) I have to run a very tight banking ship, sometimes down to the penny. That 29.95 charge out of nowhere is invariably going to hit my lean bank account at the wrong time, and start a ripple effect there I don’t want to think about.

I don’t need this stress. I have better things to do on a Sunday morning.

Happy June everyone.

I’d like to add with chagrin and frustration that these automated charges always seem to show up over a weekend while their originating offices are closed. This gives the electronic charges that much more time to gain momentum and harder to reverse.

No points to PayPal for their help. “This transaction is currently pending. If there is a problem, you can file a dispute once the transaction is completed. Only completed transactions are eligible for dispute.”